Independence Lake County Park

Matt "The Spider" Swider    November 9, 2010 at 7:17pm

Anyone up for a round today? Say 11 or 12? Just for fun or as part of a review. Anyone?

Mike Even    November 9, 2010 at 7:06pm

Heading out the review & play the Red's tomorrow afternoon (work is a little slow this week). Scott's review below though will be tough to match :) Dude nailed it perfectly.

Scott Ransley    November 9, 2010 at 5:15am

I played the reds for the first time on Sunday. If the goal was to appeal to beginners, I think they succeed. I was hoping they might offer a little different shot variety, so that maybe I would have the urge to play them occasionally as a change of pace. I am not sure that will happen. Not convinced they will get much use except by beginnners.

I categorized the holes into groups as follows:

Cat 1: Deuceable by all. Average players kick themselves if they don’t deuce ... more

I played the reds for the first time on Sunday. If the goal was to appeal to beginners, I think they succeed. I was hoping they might offer a little different shot variety, so that maybe I would have the urge to play them occasionally as a change of pace. I am not sure that will happen. Not convinced they will get much use except by beginnners.

I categorized the holes into groups as follows:

Cat 1: Deuceable by all. Average players kick themselves if they don’t deuce it.
Cat 2: Takes a good shot by a beginner to deuce. The average player expects to deuce it, but has an equal chance of a par.
Cat 3: Beginner is probably not going to deuce it. Takes a good shot for the average player to deuce it, but most of the time they will par.

I came up with two Cat 1, seven Cat 2, and ten Cat 3 holes, which I think is a pretty good spread for beginners, but maybe a little too easy for average players to bother with. Are you tied to keep the existing whites as the mid tees? There may be some opportunities to use the current white as the red tee, and come up with a new white.

Looking at the shot variations (from a RHBH perspective):

Six holes favor a hyzer, five an anny, and four straight. Two holes are about equally suited to a hyzer and a straight shot, and one favors a hyzer and an anny equally. Again, that is a pretty good mix.

Favorite Holes:
1, 2, 5, 13

Least favorite holes:
9, 17, 18

Individual holes that could use some tweaking:

Hole 4: Tee is tucked in so far that it is not visible from the long tee. This is really just a pet peeve with me to get to a hole, and not be able to tell if there is a group waiting to tee off. This is the shortest hole out there, so I don’t think it would hurt to move it across the fairway.

Hole 6: Not sure you want the tee on the upslope of the hill. I would like to see it moved to flat ground and across the fairway to shoot over the rough near the (now dry) pond. There is plenty of room for people to throw around, instead of over if they want to.

Hole 9: Red tee was disappointing. It is basically a 215 straight shot with a low ceiling. I am biased, because I love the white/black tee on this hole, with all the shot possibilities. Why can’t this be the only hole with just one tee?

Hole 11: Impossible to see people here from the black or white tee. Like the short little anny shot though.

Hole 16: Too close to the rough behind the tee. Not visible from the black. Probably needs to be moved up, but I had a hard time picking a spot that doesn’t interfere with 13.

Hole 17: Again this tee is so far from the others and concealed, it is almost a different fairway. That would be fine if the shot was interesting, but again it is just a 210 foot low ceiling straight shot. You could just move it back onto the fairway, and maybe offset it to the left of the other tees.

Hole 18: You have three holes that require a hyzer through a tight gap between trees. #1 and #13 are great holes. #18 seems redundant. I would rather see a hole that requires an anny through a tight gap, instead of another hyzer.

[member not found]    November 9, 2010 at 4:53am

Has the Picnic Course been fully installed yet? I went there last weekend and only the back nine on the picnic side was installed. Thanks

Daniel J Lee    November 9, 2010 at 4:40am

didn't mean to say it was a potential par4 hole lol

Daniel J Lee    November 9, 2010 at 4:38am

I will reiterate this for you Jamie, meant to put it this way: "I'm sorry, but the new 16 white is impossibly duecable (for most people). Unless you get a miraculous/accidental roll over to the basket,this is a challenging par3, if not- BOGIE hole.
OKAY- IF you can throw a 500ft bomb, then it MIGHT be deucable."

It is a challenging par 3 because you have to have a good drive AND good up-shot. Easy 4 if you mess up either one.

Chris Jackson    November 9, 2010 at 3:51am

I liked the old 16 but the new one is fine, too. I've only played the new one from the whites. Having to throw past that single tree in the middle of the fairway adds a fair challenge to the hole. As a righty, you want to land a the crest of the hill and skip towards the basket, I imagine.

Personally, I think the course is a little easier than I remember it. Then again, I might be thinking of the original Loco IV layout.

Daniel J Lee    November 9, 2010 at 3:26am

i said for most people it is non-duecable you fatass. you are not most ppl.

Jim Daniels    November 9, 2010 at 3:17am

I do agree it adds more scoring differential and will definitely remain a tough hole if OB is put in. But that could add issues in tournaments as arguments ensue about entry point into the OB. Hole 13 at Lakeshore has the same issue, did it hit a tree inbounds and then go OB or not? I guess you could say any OB = re-tee, not sure how popular that would be.

Scott White    November 9, 2010 at 3:09am

By the way thanks for the thoughtful comments and let's keep em coming.

Jim Daniels    November 9, 2010 at 3:04am

Old hole 16 (long) was not a lefty deuce hole because the lefty hyzer had no chance of carrying all the way to the hole -- it was a fairly easy par 3 for a lefty. The hole could only be deuced by a very well thrown righty turnover. I don't hate the new hole just think the old hole was cooler. One problem with the new basket is that now drives from the middle tee can carry into 13's fairway.

Scott White    November 9, 2010 at 3:00am

Old 16 had a non-existent score variation from blacks. On a given tournament you would see 9 out f ten players take a ho-hum 3.

Jim the new white location was moved back to lower the chance of a drive carrying to 13s fairway, and to take more advantage or the huge fairway available there. We will have to look at score variation from the new white tee but I do like Marks idea of creating OB In the flat dry area that is a pond in the spring.

Jim Daniels    November 9, 2010 at 2:49am

Old hole 16 (long) was not a lefty deuce hole because the lefty hyzer had no chance of carrying all the way to the hole -- it was a fairly easy par 3 for a lefty. The hole could only be deuced by a very well thrown righty turnover. I don't hate the new hole just think the old hole was cooler. One problem with the new basket is that now drives from the middle tee can carry into 13's fairway.

Jamie Mosier    November 9, 2010 at 2:46am

I have dueced 16 3 times and seen it deuced at least 5 other time if u think it could be a par 4 u r mentally challenged(cough*dan lee*cough) if u can throw 450 it is all about luck getting a duece. Good tweek cuz it's scoring differential should be more extreme. Being longs/pros the caliber player it is meant for should have no problem 3ing it weather righty/lefty bomber or not. Read some course development resources on pdga then talk some sh!t. Only good point made for old pin is by Pete ... more

I have dueced 16 3 times and seen it deuced at least 5 other time if u think it could be a par 4 u r mentally challenged(cough*dan lee*cough) if u can throw 450 it is all about luck getting a duece. Good tweek cuz it's scoring differential should be more extreme. Being longs/pros the caliber player it is meant for should have no problem 3ing it weather righty/lefty bomber or not. Read some course development resources on pdga then talk some sh!t. Only good point made for old pin is by Pete if u r considering a duece from white as an am 3 move the Fu(k up and don't be a pu$$y. Btw there's no other holes like the new pin either. My $.02

mark ellis    November 9, 2010 at 2:43am

Even as a lefty (rhfh) I like the new 16.

I seldom saw players deuce the old 16. Most times, in most groups it was just a ho hum 3 for everyone. The new 16 is a much tougher hole with more scoring variance, especially when the pond/swamp has water in it and is OB. If it were roped off OB it would be a much better hole and the OB would create a greater danger for righties, balancing out the challenge.

peter kunoff    November 9, 2010 at 2:40am

old 16 was a sweet hole.....that said when the course was crowded or during tourney old 16's basket, 13's basket and 14's tee were very close to each other had a lot of potential for unneeded distraction/noise/etc.....

g lane    November 9, 2010 at 2:16am

sarah demar parked it and shes a girl

Aaron Birdsall    November 9, 2010 at 1:54am

I SAY THERE ARE ENOUGH LEFTY HOLES ON THE COURSE AND EVEN THOUGH I HAVN'T DUECED IT YET I THINK I COULD

Jim Daniels    November 9, 2010 at 1:40am

I also agree with Joe and Pete -- before, there was no other hole like it, now it's just bomb the shit out of a hyzer and hope

Joe Gabris    November 9, 2010 at 1:24am

I agree with Pete W.